A former national Golf player, Stanford MBA, YCombinator Graduate became a Fintech Entrepreneur




hi nicholas welcome to life of education tv how are you doing today i'm doing great thanks for having me yeah amazing so to um kick off this interview i wanted to know who you are what your background is can you tell me uh what you do right now in your background sure so i was born raised in germany originally i used to play on the german golf national teams i used to be a golf player wow yeah that's a long time ago though and then i didn't pursue a professional career went to college instead studied computer science and finance moved to the instant too how did you go from playing golf to you know switching your interest completely gone is an interesting sport i'm glad you're asking um so golf there's a few things that i love about it it's like really tough very difficult sport very very demanding from a technique perspective and once you get to a high level it's all in your head like you're just playing against yourself all the time that's funny if you play well it's not very fun if you don't play very well then so i'm really tall i'm 6'4 which helps a lot uh because i hit the ball very far but i'm also very far away from the ground so my short game isn't that strong and i don't think i would have ever been good enough to play like top top top golf and i'd rather play not play professionally than be like somewhere in the bottom half or wherever yeah i studied computer science and finance because i really enjoyed that


um how like you mentioned something about you know golf being more like esports right like you playing by yourself it can be lonely yeah is there any sort of like psychological severity um to you know study engineering and um it's actually a good question i think studying is one thing not sure whether you can compare it but what definitely is true is uh playing golf and entrepreneurship have a lot of things in common really yeah because if you're if you're ceo of your own company that's very lonely you have all these problems you need to solve they're all hard most of them you've never had before and there's all these unique situations and so i found a lot of parallels there it also helps a lot golf golf is a sport where if you if you're nervous or if you're excited it impacts the way you play and so you you really need to calm yourself down a lot and i think the same is true for entrepreneurship if you start a company you need to be really relaxed and then you always be calm otherwise the team notices and then if you're nervous the team becomes nervous and then you have a huge mess i see well that's very interesting so can you tell me what happened next so you study so i studied computer science and finance i always wanted to start engineering but but not but and when i graduate when i finished playing golf i realized that real engineering like the future of engineering at least in my interest was software rather than hardware and so i studied computer science and then i moved fast forward i moved to the us in 2011 to pursue an mba in stanford and so i was at stanford from 2011 2013 the main reason yeah i hope we'll go into that the main reason um the main reason i moved to the u.s to do an mba is because i wanted to go and stay in tech um and like i thought the best way to enter silicon valley is through through joining stanford or a program that like has a lot of exposure to technology and these companies and so when i'm i was hoping that was the case when i moved to the us and then what i found is like everything is around silicon valley and technology and um and so my professors and lecturers had started companies before and they were the first ones to invest in our company also and so it was a really good idea and it worked out very well for me luckily so you were kind of also able to network um yeah network is a funny word because it assumes you're really opportunistic and you do it because like you go to stanford only so you meet people that you can use in your career it actually doesn't feel like that all these classmates become very very good friends of yours so you spend two years of your life with them it's a really funny two years of your life because you're not working you don't have like you used to you just got used to having responsibility and then the responsibility is gone and then you just study for two years and travel and so it it's really fun very fun two years i think you learn a lot you learn a lot about yourself and you you get to meet like really interesting people um and so when i said you meet really interesting people i got lucky and and ended up meeting my future co-founder of my company um chris is uh he's american from the east coast he was mit underground and he he's obsessed with cars he loves cars his first car was a delorean that's the car from back to the future you know that movie yeah so he he's all about cars and um when we got together business school became friends traveled and he told me there's so much he could do in the car space and then we ended up basically starting a car company all our classmates asked him for advice how to sell a car and then we helped our classmates sell their cars which was really fun that's super amazing so did you guys already have that ambition to start company why you guys were still student and just being friends yeah interestingly i did like i came to the yes very very purposefully with the intent to start a company chris my co-founder he was different he wanted to work for a big car company his dream his dream job was working for ferrari or mclaren one of the formula one companies and and instead of doing that he actually looked at one of these companies between first and second year and then realized it's a very cool product like the car is amazing but uh but uh like working for these car companies wasn't as fun and then i i kind of convinced them to start a company with me and it ended up very very i hope i hope he would admit it ended up being a good idea that being the very first company um how did you know you were choosing the right co-founder oh good question yeah like i think we we stumbled into it and we got lucky i think this is like a relationship you actually never know how it will turn out you just need to make the move if it feels right um and so what we didn't know at the time but found out later is that we're very complimentary he um he's a thinker he's incredibly smart and really strategic very creative and so he really enjoys that part and then he has a thousand ideas and then he usually stumbles and i'm the opposite i i i have a hard time coming up with really creative things to do and a ways to solve problems but once you give me direction and i agree with the direction i run very fast with a lot of urgency and get a lot of stuff done and so um yeah he had all these ideas and i'm like i think these are all not good ideas but let's try that one for example um and so we like we explored that and uh and just happened to be a really good fit the two of us does that make sense yeah yeah it makes perfect sense yeah um so that actually leads me to my next question which is uh you seem to be very passionate about technology and this has been consistent passion of yours right why technology though like our show one of the things i talk about is the possibility of humanity so in terms of technology like how do you see technology playing the role yeah i think there's i think the big difference between what i wanted to do and what i'm passionate about when i was a kid and today is like back then germany is famous for german engineering and that's mainly hardware like robotics and stuff like really really interesting stuff germany is a little less famous for software like technology that scales better where you don't have to have metal and robots and so i got yeah i got really excited about the software part because i feel like with software you can solve a lot of problems be it and like you think of the space and their software that disrupted the space in some way or the other um i i'm not like a rocket scientist like i don't i don't get very very deep in technology and develop technologies that develop better technologies but i like using technology to solve problems and so when when we started our first company it ended up being think of amazon for use cars so we were selling used cars online and it was more of a technology enabled company than a technology company and so the new company we're starting right now is a fintech company so it's a financial company financing service financial services company that's powered through technology and it's again it's we're not it's not rocket science like we're not reinventing something completely new but we're using technologies that are available to solve problems today that weren't available a couple of years ago if that makes sense right right i so i heard this before where someone describes what innovation is is to take the existing idea and


actually i think i didn't let you finish your full story oh yeah yeah i got lost halfway yeah so what did we do yeah no worries i'm glad you guys so we started this company called carlipso sold our classmates cars raised 1.2 million dollars from professors um experiment a little bit went through y combinator by combinator is the most well-known startup accelerator in silicon valley yeah that was a really good experience graduated raised a little bit more money changed the model our model wasn't scaling as fast as we wanted it to be it was very labor-intensive and so we moved away from helping private people to sell their course to the private people but we really introduced this amazon model where we sell cars completely online and so that started growing really fast so fast that we raised i think at the time than 10 million dollars and then started building a company and then we we've ran that company for another two years that was four years in total at the time and then towards the end of the four years we asked ourselves should we raise another round of funding to grow even bigger or is there anything else that we discovered on the way that may be more valuable than selling cars and so when we started comparing nodes with friends and quote unquote competitors we realized that we had built really interesting software to power our car sales and so our competitor at the time they had been they were bigger than us and they had tried to build technology that um that was very similar to what we had built but hadn't started yet and so then we said hey this is why do we compete against either let's just combine the two companies like we sell our company to them bring on the whole team and then work on it together which is what we ended up doing and so we sold our company to carvana


and so that was when was that that was in 2017 and then we as part of the deal we stayed on which was exciting because we wanted to see it through like we weren't done yet we thought there's still a lot of work to do right so we we joined the whole team joined chris was responsible for my co-founder for like product on the website i became more of a general manager for a new business unit and so we stayed on for three years which was a really really fun journey


and then yeah and then just to finish up the whole story we left in june of this year so a couple of months ago we started a new business um it's as i said earlier it's a financial services company powered by technology and the whole premise is around refinancing auto loans in the u.s different than in any other any other company a country people who've proven to not make payments regularly so have challenged credit they can get cars in the yes and when they start making their payments they improve their credit worthiness so they they should get lower rates but the rates are stuck somehow somehow at the point in time when they bought the car and so there's a huge opportunity right so how did you come up with this idea yeah good question so there when we were selling cars ourselves with our own company we noticed that that customers asked us we were think of us as a car dealer at the time they asked us for loans and insurance products yeah we didn't think that made any sense because we're car dealership we're not like insurance brokers or or banks and so we had to partner with other institutions and then we found that different partners were worked slightly differently some paid us a really high referral fee and others were very customer centric wanted to give really good rates and conditions to customers and so we realized this is not a line because the customer wants the best rate interest rate but most dealers want to make a lot of money and so we realized at the time that if you if you if your car dealership you optimize for yourself and so if you if you want to help the consumer you need to address him after he bought a car ideally like 12 to 80 months later when you made some payments and then you can give a much better loan and save them thousands of dollars so we the insight came from when we ran our last company that's more than three years ago


actually this kind of points to the question i was gonna ask at the very end but um you know in terms of like pursuing business opportunity like where is your passion like like is it the fact that you'd like the game of entrepreneurship like do you like do you see yourself liking that the game as an entrepreneurship or do you see yourself liking the idea of like in helping the car industry like where does it come yeah i think motivations and passions change like you always want to you want to do the right thing for the right reasons right and so i think that changes a little bit when i graduated from business school and that's true for myself for all my peers for everyone we're really ambitious we want to build big things be very successful um and so back then the horizon over which we wanted to be successful felt a little too short compared to how long it usually takes to build companies so back then i really liked the problem working on but i also really wanted to build a big company and so we sold it and then spent time with carvana and that worked out very well for us financially and so now i'm presented with the same question like what am i excited about this time i not only like the problem i also like the reason why we're doing it but the goal is to give money back to people who don't have a lot of money like people who are already disadvantaged by the system we want to give them money back so they can build credit and then have like uh like you have a chance of having living a very a life with lots of prosperity prosperity so for me this time the motivation is not only the problem but even like individual people who we can help and so that's really important because like startups are hard and then at some point you risk that you had like multiple weeks of bad experiences and frustration you risk asking yourself why am i doing this right and and if you don't have like an alter mission or a grander mission and vision and motive then it becomes a little hard to motivate yourself sometimes but do you think that it came out of your necessity or do you think that was an intention that was already there good question yeah so i i always liked competing like i really enjoyed it i wanted to push myself and be really really good and i also didn't like competing with people who in golf for example who are worse than me i always enjoyed playing against people who are much better than me i thought that brought the best out of me i think entrepreneurship is a little bit like that too you always compare yourself with these big companies incumbents that are much bigger much better thunder and have like really strong footholds and it's fun to be like the little guy to weasel yourself through the cracks and try to build something


so that's i think where the ambition motivation comes from this time around it's the same and i feel like i'm even better prepared so back then like the competitors were a little bit too big and it was a really really really hard fight i think this time we have a very unfair advantage because we we've been in the space for seven years understand it really well i've learned a lot and so now other than winning we can even win like as a big community and like include more people than just us founders if that makes sense is it easier to was it easier experience for you to start the second company compared to the very first one yeah well it's different right it's different for many reasons including a you've already made a lot of mistakes so you you won't make those mistakes again you'll make different mistakes but at least you already know some that you try to avoid yeah number two um we got lucky because a the first one worked out well right so we can we just approached the same investors and had a lot of interest but even luckier is that chris and i get along very well so my co-founder and i get along really well and um like many times co-founders fight it's just like in a relationship these don't last forever we're lucky that we don't have a lot of ego issues like we we agree to disagree a lot and then we trust data and if you do that and if you get along well then then a big risk of a startup that the founders could fight or not get along is actually taken off the table and so from an investor perspective you have people who have done it before people who are have had a good financial outcome it's another fearless and then it's a group of people already work together have a lot of experience in a space that they never do well that makes it significantly easier in terms of getting started and raising money so that's for sure building the business is still very hard right no for sure so when you're raising your funds right like you said that you knew some people already yeah what are they trusting on you like is that you why i asked myself the same question all the time


like why would you trust me no just like i was just curious like what are they investing on as an investor it depends on the stage so right now we went out talked to investors fundraising and they invested in two people and a story in our experience they invested in in there's chris and i we could choose to do a lot of things for the next 10 years of our lives because we got lucky but we're choosing this so that that that already arguably suggests that we really believe in it like it's not like we're trying to desperately start a company no we really believe in it and then we we happen we happen to this is this is good or bad to have become experts in the car space like we just know the space really well it's frustrating because it's a frustrating space but uh it also means we learned a lot and so that gives us an advantage


so you mentioned something very interesting earlier uh you said that you were very competitive right which is very important right i think for you to have if you're a business either i think that there's a fine like well there's a i guess mixed concept with being competitive and being insecure right like that it kind of kind of goes that you think i'm insecure


i'm just kidding i'm just kidding and then like as you mentioned there are going to be times where it's very hard to persevere and those are the time where you definitely need high sense of self-esteem and high willingness to love yourself even if you fail so given all these like three concepts um you know being a little bit insecure that you want to prove someone else that you are capable you're competitive at the same time you have this high system self-esteem like can you kind of like explain how this thing play in your particular case yeah i have a lot of thought so when you say competitive i think there's


it manifests itself in two different ways like in my case i don't like competing unless i feel like i have a really really good chance at winning like in golf for example i loved competing because i like on the level i played i was very good but then at the very end i just realized i was just honest to myself like it's like we're all playing with the same golf clubs same tools but some of them are just so much better than me that that wasn't the like that's not the battle i wanted to choose instead i studied computer science and then finance went to college and so i felt like i'm a battle i would win is more intellectual than an athletic battle if that makes sense and so when we started our first company like everything we've always looked for was where do we have an edge like where do we have unfair advantage because we know something or we have access to something we've built something um or we like have specific resources and so when you compete when i compete i don't want to compete in something that's a commodity like i'm looking to compete on a level where i have a unique advantage so i'm the new business for example we just happen to know the space so well and so i think that's slightly different than just competing for the for the sake of competing so that's around like a few thoughts around competing and then competition i i think i'm just motivated i just like i just like having fun and being good at something like i don't mind losing at all like in golf i was i'm i was very upset when i lost because i messed up i was not very upset that a few times i lost and the other person was just better than me and so and startups would you just need to know that some days are just really bad like you wake up and it starts bad and then it gets even worse um the most important thing is to like get a lot of sleep to work out and to manage your own psychology you need to understand whether it's just you that feels down over the like all the all the signs point to like this is not working and so that's no problem you just need to be intellectually honest you need to try hard enough to not have a wrong signal but if at some point you realize this is not working you just pivot to something else all right so i guess i have two different questions like the first one is when do you know if something is not working anymore versus like you need to persevere and the second thing is how can you gain the courage to not blame yourself when you make mistakes like you know yeah so your first question was how do you know when it doesn't work it's actually the question is actually the other way around that's even harder when do you know that it works and so like the there's this concept called product market fit what startups are looking for you want you want to get up to a place where okay everybody wants what i have now i can grow this really big and so there's no like it's not black and white whether you're not whether you have product market fit or whether you don't in our previous company like the model that we pursued in the end was going really well like from zero to 150 cars a month 150 cars a month means 35 million three million dollars in revenue so that's quite a lot like that worked really well and we had every reason to believe the company could be very very big right and then the next cell and the next thing elixir became harder and harder and we were really confused because it went like that and then became flat and so what we with hindsight it took us a long time to understand what happened like we had these early adopters like we found people who understood what we were doing and wonder what we have and these were a little less than 150 a month and then when we went beyond that we entered a segment of the market that was just not as willing to take the risk or what felt like a risk or to try this out and so that's why the question is did we have something that worked like did we have product market fit and you can argue we did you can also argue we didn't i think we had it for a specific segment and so that's why we had a really good feeling and we got very very positive feedback then we noticed like it was getting harder and not easier to scale the business and then we realized okay i don't think we have it for that segment and then yeah there's no data that suggested in other than in our case like the custom acquisition cost went up and not down every time we tried to make another sale so that wasn't a good sign but in reality we didn't need the data to tell us like we felt it wasn't quite working like it wasn't it wasn't like everybody wondered what we had and so i think that's how we felt it and then the second question is how do you have the courage to go on well you not believe


phil knight the guy who started nike he he went to stanford business school too and he has this one saying that i love he says it doesn't matter how often you fail for as long as you uh for as long as you don't fail the last time you try then he says the failure is just part of the journey and you get used to it like it's in the beginning you may be discouraged if something that you believed in didn't work but like that's just startups every day today i tried three things that didn't work and i thought it was fun you're like i thought this could work and then you just get used to like getting punched in the face it's just part of the journey and you think you're more important a lot because you've been through a lot now i've been through a lot like luckily i haven't like physically have not been through a lot mentally


it depends it depends on what you enjoy like i chris my co-founder loves loves the super early stage of the company i'm starting to get much better at handling it because it's the part where you need to be really creative if it wasn't for him i think i couldn't do it because i need somebody to be really creative also i think vice versa if he asks him is like yeah i have all these ideas but i don't know how to get going like i don't get anything done quickly so that's why we're like we work well together and yeah like for as long as you're not trapped into doing something that doesn't work and you don't know a way out this is all fun like you just need to be honest yourself you need to try as hard as possible you need to be maintain your integrity and then if you quote survive long enough as a company if you don't run out of money you'll find something that works you just need to be really frugal


that's very insightful so i'm going to actually come back to one of your early um experience at the white container um can you tell me about the experience you have there yeah so for a little context y combinator yc is a startup incubator or accelerator program i think they have two classes a year they accept 100 startups and so the goal there is it's also jokingly it's been called the the summer course six summer camp course six is the software engineering or computer science class in mit and so what the initial engineers initial founders that joined the program were all like these incredibly hyper smart people from mit who started building products but who had like one little weakness or lack of experience they never left the building they always tried to convene thought they can reinvent the wheel from behind the computer screen and my company is like no no you have to go out of the building and talk to your customers because they'll tell you whether or not they'll or you can watch them use your product and then you learn and so that's that's uncomfortable sometimes um but the program like they keep you accountable every week you have office hours and you check in and there's other teams that keep you responsible and uh accountable and so i really enjoyed that part meeting other entrepreneurs who were like in the fight in a different fight but we're fighting the same direction at least and then towards the end of the experience you have what's called demo day that's been all the startup pitch and create this this this environment where where a lot of investors want to invest and it's really hard to tell which company works and which one doesn't so everybody gets money um i think that's a good experience we were lucky that we had had raised a lot of money already before entering yc and we came from a really strong network from stanford but people who don't have that network and want to raise money for their company i think going through that program is really really really really valuable how do they get in if they're not in the same position as you are if they're not in the same way as soon as you are positioned because you already had like good proof of success like before oh yeah now actually i think in some way i felt like we were actually already beyond like the very early startup stage with our business we had a reset because we changed the model and so that made us a good fit but you don't need to have revenue you don't need you don't need to have like an operating product what you need to have in order to get into yc is a strong conviction and you must have talked to customers and the customers must have must have either disagreed with you and told you what else to build or you had you learned a lot from talking to customers so much so that you have the courage to build a business so there's a lot of companies that i see that very early stage and that's good but all of them have in common it's like they have the courage to talk to customers they have convictions and don't mind to be proven wrong and they're just willing to learn really quickly and that's when you apply and then i think there's a video and then during covert times i don't know how they do it i think they do it remotely but we met at nyc at the building every other week i think or every week and um that took that lasted for three months like what was the one thing if you could like pick and choose like what was the one thing you would say um you took away the most from that experience from buy combinator well the part that i enjoyed most is there's these dinners always organized dinners i think every other week and then all these tech celebrities come and tell their story and so that's super inspiring yeah especially if you have a day where nothing works and then you sit down and then mark zuckerberg tells you how you about facebook you're like let's try again tomorrow


um but the one thing like the one thing that really lasts are the friendships we made because like being a founder is is lonely and a lot of my friends are founders my closest friends aren't um and so sometimes they couldn't quite empathize with why i worked so much and why i cared so much and then finding like a big community of people who think very much like that i thought was really valuable and helped the company right so do you believe like mentorship is something that works for entrepreneurs i think it's super important there's there's three types of decisions you need to make in a startup there's a decision where you can collect data you're like i don't know whether i should build x or like a or b but i can i can build a prototype and test and then data will tell me there's one decision you make where data tells you what to do there's another decision where only you as a founder can know what's the right thing that's mostly very much aligned with where you want the journey to go and your north side your values that's basically the company and cultural building and the third decisions are things that there's no data and you don't know how to make the decision but other founders have had the same problem 100 times before and so for things that's new to me would have happened to every other founder mentors are really great because they tell you i know exactly that you don't know which jerks to go but i'll tell you go that way i've seen this 10 times and so that's where i find mentors really helpful


so i'm going to go into i have two more questions the next one is so you said that you graduated from stanford mba right like can you also give me the experience there and also how was it actually helpful for your career yeah very good question so the stanford mba i can only speak to the stanford nba i think every program is slightly different um i went in with a lot of expectations and i left with like like i was on all the things that i experienced and many many more things so you can't even imagine going in how life-changing of an experience that will be not because of the academics so the classes are good some classes are really really great for me the classes around entrepreneurship i thought were great but particularly for two reasons i thought it was an incredible experience hey all the friends i made like really good friends my best friends and then the relationships i built to professors and lecturers these are all people who were in our shoes 10 20 30 years ago you know now spending their time with students trying to like give back so the help i've received from really incredible people is just incredible and so now we're a case study and so every every year once or twice chris my girlfriend i go back to class and give a little bit back like we're nothing compared to the people who helped us but like having the chance to give back and contribute a little bit feels really good and so i really enjoy that so that sense of community once again yeah it's incredible yeah these are all friends i see but did it so i guess oh yeah the second question didn't help me that it helped me i started in in a lot of ways yes so you startups can't be taught like you can't accounting can be taught finance can be taught startups can be taught because it's like every everyone now i don't think so but can because every business is different what can be taught is the process like how do you go about building a business and finding finding product market fit that's what all you care about in the company everything else beyond that is hard but i think the hardest part of a business is defending product market fit and so there's there's a process that will help you and increase the chance to get there but there is no right or wrong and so what i felt like the class has taught me very successfully is like you need to have a strong strong conviction around i want this world to be different and you need to have a north star and then day to day you need to be really scrappy very frugal try out a lot of things always talk to customers because they'll tell you what to build and so i feel like that process took me a long time to i understand and then become good at but i feel like now looking back like i would have never learned it and never never understood it if it wasn't for the classes i had at stanford number one and number two is like all our funding from our first company came from professors and lecturers associated with stanford so we would have never been able to start the company if it wasn't for them right i see i see so i'm gonna move on to my very last question that makes me sad because you have been like incredible guest okay so what i wanna ask is i think we kind of discover this throughout our conversation but what would you say how do you describe what it takes for someone to be become a good successful entrepreneur and um you know advisors in this investor in yeah yeah i i have a number of thoughts number one in order like nobody will tell you whether or not you'll be successful um even you might not not even you might think you'll be sexual and you want or you may doubt yourself and you won't the most important thing you know as a founder and to start companies to just get started like you have to do something if you just think about an idea and find all the reasons why it could or it could not work you will you will always talk yourself out of trying because there's all these answers that you don't have and then you're like oh there's a gazillion things i need to figure out this can't work and so it's very easy to talk yourself out of starting something and i think that's actually the biggest danger so the most important thing is to just get started and then you have to do it for the right reasons like if money is your main motivation you'll just not last enough you won't be tenacious enough to go through really hard times um and so the the real reason why you're in it needs to be something like a north star something really ambitious that you can achieve that's good for people and not just good for your wallet right and so if you have that then i think everybody is well suited to start a business and everybody should try but what's the balance though because as a business you still need to think about money today money tomorrow and then well i as a business you do but personally you don't like i founders can like luckily that's changed a lot but founders pay themselves enough to live a decent life although san francisco is really expensive like investors want you to pay yourself well so good enough so you can have a good live and you're not worried like we paid ourselves very little and that wasn't a great idea you need to be able to wake up on a sunday and get a massage if you want one or i don't know if you want to do go somewhere and take an uber for a long ride you should you should not think twice otherwise you'll just you'll just live miserably quote-unquote and then the week starts and that's what what's really miserable the startup life you actually need the balance and right and so you should always you should always pay yourself good enough to have a okay life and you have room and space to decompress you have to otherwise and investors will be very supportive and then when you run the company you need to do it very very frugal you can't spend a lot of money you need to you need to learn it's all about learning quickly as much as you can as quickly as you can and so you don't need to spend a lot of money to do it but it needs to be part of your dna and you need it needs to become a habit to spend as little as possible to learn something because you have to learn like 1001 times and if you if you budget too much for each of the learnings it just won't last so you need to be really scrappy and hacky but i think everybody can do it like especially as if you've been in in the startup for a long time and you've been struggling to make something work you learn to be very scrappy and if you just survive long enough if the company survives long enough i think you'll find something that works that's very insane so before i let you go i want to ask you where people can find you okay cool so yeah i think the best way is just like you did fight me on linkedin look for nicholas hendricks maybe you can just put my my linkedin profile in in your show notes and then yeah people don't don't hesitate to reach out be fun to connect with people all over the world and if you have questions or if you have answers or if you have feedback like i'd love to hear and then we didn't talk about it too much detail but the new company is called clutch yeah let's talk about that a little bit before we go okay yeah so the company is called clutch the domain or the way you find it is with clutch.com it's a digital platform to refinance your auto loan which means you can save thousands of dollars it's primarily for the us market it's a technology company it's a fintech business we just started we left our previous company not even well we left it in june before the end of june we had secured investments so that happened so quickly which was incredible and we're about to close the rounds and then get started and so the goal here is to save americans a lot of money in their car expenses amazing amazing so yeah i'm gonna make sure to visit all that on my show now okay i'll help you yeah well thank you very much for coming to my show well thanks for having me thanks for reaching out

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